Advice for a wannabe taper?

[markslog]

Hey James:

I'll actually have a spare monopod that Chris, Steve and I use. If you "buy" a camera from Future Shop you are welcome to borrow my monopod. PM me if ya want to meet up in Sault Ste. Marie - I'm coming via Thunder Bay.

Unfortunately you probably won't be able to get proper audio equipment for the show but you probably could go to future shop and find a video camera for the shows. I suggest Future Shop because of their return policy. If you don't like the camera you buy you can always return it.
There are so many different video cameras out there these days - I of course am leaning tomorrow the HD camcorders (Canon and Sony).

Since I don't have the Church Audio pre-amp I assume the gain settings are a rudimentary volume control - ie increase the sound coming out of the preamp by +30db, +10gb or nothing. Higher end pre-amps have a
real volume control.

Bornalion's setup is really small and sounds great. Easy to use as well. No preamp is technically required because of the battery box. You essentially record line in for the loud shows.

Oh yeah and http://www.soundprofessionals.com is another extensive place to buy stealth audio equipment - both BigA and Dreyfuss have equipment from there.

Mark

[chris]

Hoisting the mics up on a stand gets them away from the sounds that people make - screaming, whistling, clapping, etc - all things that can degrade the recording.

That said, there are some great recordings made with the mics clipped to a ballcap...

With video, you need a monopod to steady the cam - especially when zooming... and as I mentioned to BIGVDOGG, it's hard to hold a beer, and a camera.

Manfrotto self standing, and a fluid head ~ $200 - $250 total.

Here's a somewhat over-simplified explanation of the terms:

Gain: The amount of amplification that a signal obtains as it passes through the device

Output Level Control: Like the volume setting - relates to the signal being output.

High Pass Filter: High frequency audio is passed through without any changes. Frequencies below a predetermined (or sometimes variable) level are attenuated. (Cut-out/deleted/flattened)

Flat Response: Across the range of audio frequencies, there is no change to any of them as they pass through the device. This is good.

Distortion Less Than 0.5%: Standard, and means what it says... as the sound passes through the device it does not get distorted...

[bornalion]

if your tall and your head is above most people you should get good results on a hat or even your collar but its best to keep your head fairly still.they could easily be put on a stand as well.the higher the better.

i'm guessing theres some sort of switch that would allow you to deterimine the amount of gain you want,the quieter the show the more gain needed,your seat location will effect this too.

output level control probably doesn't matter if using the r-09,i'm guessing on that one.

high pass filter, flat response and distortion less than 0.5%. i don't know anything on this.

final setup mics>pre>r-09 line in with the pre gain all the way up? and adjust your levels on the r-09 to around -6db i'm guessing that would be your setup for most shows.

the advantages of the r-09 are 24 bit recording,no real time conversions,you see both left and right channels,and once you buy a sd card your set.

hi-md most people save their recording on the discs then they have to buy more blanks.its a little cheaper then the r9 but you spend it anyway on discs.

email church audio for samples and tell him what type of music you'll be taping and i'm sure he'd set you up real nice,but make sure you hear some samples.and you like what you hear.

[bornalion]

holy shit guys

'rudimentary'

'Frequencies below a predetermined (or sometimes variable) level are attenuated. (Cut-out/deleted/flattened)'

C'MON

[Hairbird]

holy shit guys

'rudimentary'

'Frequencies below a predetermined (or sometimes variable) level are attenuated. (Cut-out/deleted/flattened)'

C'MON

Actually, I pick up pretty quickly, that almost make perfect sence to me!

lion, Mark, Chris, thanks for all of the great information and answers. I'll probably head off to bed without any further research tonight, I've got to be up at 5:00, but I have a feeling that I won't be too productive at work tomorrow! I love internet at work!

I'm actually heading down to Toronto for a Matt Mays show on Saturday, so I don't really have much shopping time left before Tuesday, between work tomorrow, travel this weekend and 2 kids to look after on Monday. If there is anything else that you think will help me please post again, and I'm sure to be posting some more questions as I dig up information tomorrow.

Thanks for the monopod offer Mark. I'm leaning toward a video camera for the logical family purchase excuses as posted above, so that might be an invaluable offer. By the same token I've always collected and love listening to audio recordings, but still haven't quite proven to myself that a DVD is worth more than 1 or 2 viewings. As I was starting to elude to in an earlier post, I'm getting a raise, so 2 groups of purchase might be excusable (especially when done in secret)!

[chris]

holy shit guys

'rudimentary'

'Frequencies below a predetermined (or sometimes variable) level are attenuated. (Cut-out/deleted/flattened)'

C'MON

There's no need to be such a dick about it. I was just trying to help!!!

[bornalion]

i have a duty and position to uphold.


ask yourself this...........................

what would a dick do?

[rocketsan22]

Maybe I'm a bit of an audio snob, but I have a real hard time listening to anything that isn't soundboard. Maybe it's just too many muffled old versions of Blow At High Dough with drunk clowns singing in the background...

[Hairbird]

Are any of you guys familiar with Long & McQuaid? I found that they carry the Edirol R-09, for only a few more dollars than the website bornalion linked. Unfortunately, any reasonalbe chance of ordering that mic/pre-amp set (or any other of the internet) isn't going to happen in time for any of next week's shows. I'm wondering if anyone knows whether a place like Long & McQuaid might also stock similar mics? Any other Toronto area stores that might stock the kind of audio equipment that would be good for concert recording?

Mark, thanks for the link to soundprofessionals. I've spent a long time browsing their equipment, and they've got some useful FAQ's for beginners like me. I wish I'd started this search earlier, even a week ago, but I'm running out of time for this tour.

[bornalion]

i know mark bought stuff from them before.i'm not sure about them having any mics in stock there.

the r-09 has internal mics that seem to be alright as a last resort.
heres a link to a show that used the internal mics close to the stage in a
club setting

http://www.archive.org/details/roger_cl ... ers_110606

the trouble using the internal mics is keeping the whole recorder high.

[chris]

There's a good chance that L&M will have some sort of comparable mics in stock... and they will have the staff to explain it to you.

[Hairbird]

Thanks Chris, I'm going to check it out today or tommorow. If I can't put together a decent package then I'll hit Future Shop and look the camcorders on Monday.

[markslog]

I actually found a pretty decent looking place in Toronto that does Rentals - with some of the type of equipment that you would want to use to do audio recording

http://www.trewaudio.ca

Of course L&M and Steve's Music are also options in Toronto. I have purchased and rented equipment from L&M.

[Hairbird]

I bought the R-09 at L&M yesterday. The guy who helped me wasn't really much of a help, and although I don't know much about this stuff, I didn't really trust the microphone that he ended up recommending to me. He didn't seem to understand the application, and some of the things that he told me, about external power for example, seemed to contridict the things that I'd been reading over the past few days. I didn't see any mics that looked similar to many of the ones that I'd been looking at online, and although there may have been suitable ones for sale, I wasn't comfortable enough with the technology to pick one out on my own.

In the end I figured that I'd rather try my hand at audio recording first, and maybe I'll think about video again in the future if enjoy this. I decided to buy the R-09 and practice recording with the internal mics until I can get some more equipment. I tried recording the Matt Mays concert last night, but I'm still not sure how it turned out. I didn't have any earphones, and I just got home and downloaded it now. I know that's it's pretty quite, I was too conservative setting the input level, but I'll give it a listen soon and see what the quality sounds like.

I've made the first step now, and although I probably won't get great recordings of the Hip shows this week, at least I'll get the chance to play around a bit, and I should be ready to join the taping community by the next time I get to see them! Thanks again for all of the help guys!

[Hairbird]

consider this your warning if your a impulse buyer,you will always want a better result and spend a ton of cash,you'll tape just about anything/go anywhere and love it. don't blame me, ahhh f#&k it blame me.

Well, consider yourself blamed! I just put in an order at soundprofessionals.com for these:

SP-CMC 4 - SOUND PROFESSIONALS PREMIUM AUDIO TECHNICA CARDIOID STEREO MICROPHONES

SP-SPSB-7 - SOUND PROFESSIONALS SUPER BATTERY MODULE. Add Adjustable Bass Roll-off; Add Dual Slider Level Control; Add gain selectable preamplifier

I put up a few extra bucks for expedited shipping, so if the order is processed and shipped quickly tomorrow morning, I just may be able to test them out in Sudbury next weekend!

From some reviews and recommendations that I've dug up, this sounds to me to be good set, and although I may not have technically needed anymore than a simple battery box, I think the one I'm getting will give me some options depending on the particular recording environment. The microphones should do quite well until the compulsion takes over and I start spending more and more to get that extra bit of quality!