Advice for a wannabe taper?

[Hairbird]

I'm going to be going to the Sault Ste. Marie, Barrie and Sudbury shows next week, and I have always wanted to try my hand at taping, but have never made the investment yet. Now, as usual, it's close to show time and I've got the itch again. Unfortunately, I have the feeling that it may be too late.

I don't really know much about the required equipment, but I have the feeling that getting the right mics, a pre-amp, a recording device, etc., would be hard to do in a local shop, just walking in off the street. Am I correct?

Is there a good set-up that I should be able to assemble quickly without waiting for internet orders and delivey? If so, any advice on what to get, and where? I've looked at web sites like taperssection and dathead, not only today, but in the past as well, but I've never put in enough time to really understand the necessary components or their usual availability.

I know there are some good digital video cameras to be had out there as well, and would consider it, but I'm still worried about the audio, and imagine that I would at least need a decent external mic, if nothing else, to make a worthwhile recording. To me it wouldn't seem worth video taping a show like Sault Ste. Marie or Sudbury (since no one else has "signed up" yet in the other thread) without having a good audio source to go along with it.

Thanks for any help...

[chris]

I have the Sony DCR-SR100 camera and the Sony ECM-HST1 external microphone; combined they are a pretty killer combo at a reasonable price.

As for audio gear (and video if you're willing to make the jump to HD) - markslog, bornalion, dreyfuss, BigA are the guys to ask...

[Hairbird]

I have the Sony DCR-SR100 camera and the Sony ECM-HST1 external microphone; combined they are a pretty killer combo at a reasonable price.

Thanks Chris. I'm really not well informed, so does that microphone attach right on the camera and it's ready for action? Have you had good results with it recording concerts? I went looking through the txt files with a lot of your recent DVD's this afternoon, and saw that you've been using that camera (with excellent results!), but I believe in all of the files that I checked, the audio seemed to be mixed in from a secondary source. Is it really good enough on it's own, and is that microphone likely to be available at a Future Shop, or wherever I might go looking for that camera?

[chris]

The mic attaches directly to the top of the camera through the AI shoe...

Both were available at Henry's and The Sony Store.

I've always used a secondary audio source, as they've always been available... but the mic on its own is pretty damn good. Not excellent if you're standing next to the speaker stacks, but everywhere else it's been good.

I'll see if I can dig out a recording just using that mic - and get it to you.

[Hairbird]

I'll see if I can dig out a recording just using that mic - and get it to you.

That'd be great Chris. I used to always be far more interested in audio recordings, but the quality of the recent DVD's being produced by yourself and bigA have really got me thinking of video.

[markslog]

I'll be in Sault Ste. Marie and Sudbury with the same equipment that I used to record the club shows - both audio and video.

So definitely the more video angles we have would make the DVD much more enjoyable to watch.

I have pretty good seats for SSM and Sudbury.

[bornalion]

you really need to know your budget first.

timing is real tight for you to have it by the sault show.

this thread helps with pricing
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,35004.0.html

there is a guy from huntsville that builds mics/pre's, hes probably your best bet to get them in time,i don't know anything about the quality but his reputation seems good on ts.com,that might be a good idea for you being a beginner and if you enjoy taping you can always upgrade your gear for the shows in the spring ......... and you will.javascript:emoticon(':mrgreen:')


he has a package for sale right now

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,78199.0.html

you have many options for a recorder gmini/edirol r-09/rockbox/minidisc.
i would reccomend the r-09 with a 2gb sd card

actually for the barrie and sudbury shows we can help you out with a recorder.

keep the questions coming if you need more help

but like i said budget determines everything.

[Hairbird]

I'll be in Sault Ste. Marie and Sudbury with the same equipment that I used to record the club shows - both audio and video.

So definitely the more video angles we have would make the DVD much more enjoyable to watch.

I have pretty good seats for SSM and Sudbury.

That's good news Mark. It actually makes me lean even further towards video now. I think that I could explain the benefits of a camcorder to my wife a little easier than a DAT recorder or something! I have no idea what my seat will be for SSM, I'll find out when I pick it up on Tuesday I guess. I'll be in town all by my lonesome though, so I'd be great to meet up with anyone who's willing.

bornalion, thanks a lot for the info and links. I'll check them out ASAP.[/quote]

[chris]

I'll be in Sault Ste. Marie and Sudbury with the same equipment that I used to record the club shows - both audio and video.

So definitely the more video angles we have would make the DVD much more enjoyable to watch.

I have pretty good seats for SSM and Sudbury.

That's good news Mark. It actually makes me lean even further towards video now. I think that I could explain the benefits of a camcorder to my wife a little easier than a DAT recorder or something! I have no idea what my seat will be for SSM, I'll find out when I pick it up on Tuesday I guess. I'll be in town all by my lonesome though, so I'd be great to meet up with anyone who's willing.

bornalion, thanks a lot for the info and links. I'll check them out ASAP.

Be careful around that markslog character.. he's a real dick. Much like me. (Is this getting tired yet? I think so...)

Get the camera James! It's definitely easier to "sell" to your significant other than audio gear...

[Hairbird]

Get the camera James! It's definitely easier to "sell" to your significant other than audio gear...

I just found out that I'm going to be getting a raise. Actually, the way I've been arguing it, I may actually be getting paid fairly for the first time in several years, but that's another thread! Anyway, the merchandise that bornalion has put me on to, is so small that I could probably hide it from my wife for years before she figures anything out! I would have to try and audio tape in stealth in Sudbury of course, not becuase of the band or venue, but because of my wife!

bornalion, as for your budget question, all I can say is that I'm the prototypical impluse buyer. When I get the bug like this, I could spend quite a bit beyond my means without any guilt! The first link that you posted was actually a page that I was looking a earlier today. Although I can't nail down a precise budget, I don't know if even I could justify to myself spending $1200 or $2500 for a pair of mics. Of course, there is a huge price range on that list, but that's the thing, I'm so unknowledgable that I'd be scared to go for anything cheap, yet afraid to go for anything expensive! That second link for the Church Audio merchandise is very interesting though. It's also lead me to his eBay sight and I'll be preparing some more questions shortly!

PS - I was called a dick once...

[bornalion]

right now i use the coresound heb dpa 4061s into a edirol r-09 or r1.

the moncton show opening for the stones was taped with that set-up aswell as the audio for the utrecht dvd just to give you an idea of what those sound like,its a very small setup and very steathable.

theres a used set with the dpa pre-amp for sale which is a good buy if your looking to spend more ,i paid $1000us just for my mics and i don't have the pre.

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,77846.0.html

also go to the kickdown section/archive.org and find samples of recordings and figure out what sound you like.

consider this your warning if your a impulse buyer,you will always want a better result and spend a ton of cash,you'll tape just about anything/go anywhere and love it. don't blame me, ahhh f#&k it blame me.

i can hear your wife now "how'd you become such a dick overnight"
and you'll be listening to your recording not hearing a thing.

i'll pm you the password to the club message board javascript:emoticon(':twisted:')

[ron]

is so small that I could probably hide it from my wife for years before she figures anything out!


well you could say i let you borrow my equipment if that helps you out.

Ron

[Hairbird]

From the link above:

We have 6 preamps and mic packages for sale when they are gone, the sale will be over.

Here are the specs

ST-9000 preamp

Three gain settings +30 db +10 db 0 db settings + output level control

High pass filter @80hz can be switched on or off.

Small size 3.5 x 2.5 x 1 inch good for stealth use.

ST-11 cardiod mics

Flat response from 30hz to 20k + OR - 3.5 DB.

Distortion is less then 0.5% THD at 115db at 1k

6 feet of mogami cable with Neutrik gold plated ends.
Custom lengths are not a problem (additional cost may apply)

The mics come standard with clips but they can be ordered with or with out

Without getting too technical for a first lesson, could anyone try to explain to a novice what is meant by 3 gain settings, output level control, high pass filter, flat response and distortion less than 0.5%.

Generally, how would a set-up like this work. I would plug these mics into the pre-amp, the pre-amp into a recorder, and then I'm ready to go? I'm guessing that I'd pick a suitable gain and output level on the pre-amp (whatever that means exactly), and then would I have to adjust recording levels on the recording device, or would that depend on the specific device, etc.?

bornalion mentioned the Edirol R-09. That name was totally new to me, but a quick search has got me very intrigued. It's a nice looking machine, and without pouring over the specs in great detail it looks to be pretty good. Should that type of device be available at a local electronics store, or am I looking at a special order type of purchase? Anyone else have comments on this product, or perhaps an Hi-MD?

Chris, I'm off to search for another topic that I remember seeing not long ago about monopods and swiveling heads or something like that. Other than that, what other type of accessories would I need for a set-up like yours?

Thanks again everyone!

[Hairbird]

ST-11 cardiod mics

Sorry, I also meant to ask, with these type of tiny microphones, how would you set them up. Clipped to a ball cap, or would you still try to hoist them up on a stand of some sort, or something else? I'm sure it would depend on the situation, but generally speaking, say at a Hip arena concert for example!

[bornalion]

http://www.minidisc-canada.com/shopexd.asp?id=721

this is the cheapest i've found in canada for the r-09

and i've bought stuff from them before so no worries.